Curse

Kwan Xi · Feb 13, 2008, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiKio

/closethread. The OP is noob, or he has lost certain update.....

uhhh I think you are the one probably missing the update..... OoB was recently buffed to only require 1 energy to cast. Hevean's Delight/Divine Healing was buffed too (or reworked as I like to call it). That build looks relatively sound.... as long as the OoB Health Sac doesn't get you killed.

edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Ray of Judgment not to disable the rest of your smiting prayers,.

Ray of Judgment disables all NON Smiting prayers just to be clear

ender6 · Feb 14, 2008, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwan Xi

uhhh I think you are the one probably missing the update..... OoB was recently buffed to only require 1 energy to cast. Hevean's Delight/Divine Healing was buffed too (or reworked as I like to call it). That build looks relatively sound.... as long as the OoB Health Sac doesn't get you killed.

I think he is refering to the update that dbl'd sacrifice from 10% to 20% eons ago. OoB didn't bite the dust because it cost 5e, it bit the dust because of the health sacrifice, which is why dropping it to a cost of 1e won't make a difference for many people out there. Though this is a PvE forum, so the sac really isn't all that alarming. If i actually had e-mngmt issues in PvE I would probably tack on OoB. I can't recall the last time I struggled with energy in PvE.

RiKio · Feb 14, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwan Xi

uhhh I think you are the one probably missing the update..... OoB was recently buffed to only require 1 energy to cast. Hevean's Delight/Divine Healing was buffed too (or reworked as I like to call it). That build looks relatively sound.... as long as the OoB Health Sac doesn't get you killed.

Like this?

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Mo/N_Boon_Prot_2

~ Dan ~ · Feb 14, 2008, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

[skill]scribe's insight[/skill]
its fine

[skill]glimmer of light[/skill]
its fine

[skill]healing hands[/skill]
taken out of game jk think it needs to be prot skill tbh but w/e (<-- well put suggested change, anyone?)

[skill]light of deliverance[/skill]
i miss you

......with the new update cant even use it in pve any more "can but ur better off with mending+blessed sig" (seems he is talking to himself/the skills rather than opening up discussion.)

[skill]balthazar's pendulum[/skill]
its fine

[skill]defender's zeal[/skill]
its fine

Above is enough for me to know the OP hasn't got a clue.

JDRyder · Feb 14, 2008, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiKio

Like this?

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Mo/N_Boon_Prot_2

all boon prot bars are the same

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Above is enough for me to know the OP hasn't got a clue.

we all know what needs to be done to lod needs to go back pre nerfs, scibes insight is part of a "ok" boon prot build, glimmer of light is a getto rof for full heal builds, healing had is more if a prot skill to me nothing needs to be done to it never used balths pendulum so not going to say its "bad" or needs change, defender zeal is used with a boon smite build

Age · Feb 14, 2008, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwan Xi

uhhh I think you are the one probably missing the update..... OoB was recently buffed to only require 1 energy to cast. Hevean's Delight/Divine Healing was buffed too (or reworked as I like to call it). That build looks relatively sound.... as long as the OoB Health Sac doesn't get you killed.

edit:

Ray of Judgment disables all NON Smiting prayers just to be clear

I didn't read that part but if you use other skills they get disabled.

Why is it that Monk only has 1 or 2 good protection skills these being RC,Divert hexes and SoD?ZB was nice but now WoH is better than it as well as Glimmer.Why is that most Protection elites aren't that great to use?It would be nice of MoP didn't disable the rest of your protection prayers.

When you want to go and get these skills they are in the harder places to cap them in.

Mr Pink57 · Feb 14, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I didn't read that part but if you use other skills they get disabled.

Why is it that Monk only has 1 or 2 good protection skills these being RC,Divert hexes and SoD?ZB was nice but now WoH is better than it as well as Glimmer.Why is that most Protection elites aren't that great to use?It would be nice of MoP didn't disable the rest of your protection prayers.

When you want to go and get these skills they are in the harder places to cap them in.

Glimmer is in no way "better" then ZB. Glimmer is an elite Orison in my eyes and will always be, I run ZB more of then not when I H/H and arenas.

Also SoD is a great elite from the prot line, I'm getting 75% block plus an armor boost on anything that passes thru or caster damage.

pink

Pyro maniac · Feb 14, 2008, 09:39 PM // 21:39

ZB is better as an arena monk (and on par with WoH).
With multiple heals on your team ZB will be costing the full 10 energy too often.
Glimmer is nice, it will allow you alot of free heals and is nice versus those BHA ranger or Migraine campers in arena's.
Also was used as main heal by Storm Hogs.

Also SoD, ZB, RC and DH are 4 useful elites in just one single attribute line?
That's about double the amount the whole ritualist class has.

JDRyder · Feb 14, 2008, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Pink57

Glimmer is in no way "better" then ZB. Glimmer is an elite Orison in my eyes and will always be, I run ZB more of then not when I H/H and arenas.

Also SoD is a great elite from the prot line, I'm getting 75% block plus an armor boost on anything that passes thru or caster damage.

pink

i dont like glimmer my self but ive seen it used well, i think a monk from WM used it.

Fleeting · Feb 14, 2008, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

we all know what needs to be done to lod needs to go back pre nerfs, scibes insight is part of a "ok" boon prot build, glimmer of light is a getto rof for full heal builds, healing had is more if a prot skill to me nothing needs to be done to it never used balths pendulum so not going to say its "bad" or needs change, defender zeal is used with a boon smite build

LoD is fine. Nerfs happen, it's still a 1s cast and it still targets the entire party over most other party heals, you just need to adapt. As for Glimmer, not all abilities need to be effective 100% of the time (though the ability could do with a slight buff considering how it compares to HB + Orison).

Age · Feb 14, 2008, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Pink57

Glimmer is in no way "better" then ZB. Glimmer is an elite Orison in my eyes and will always be, I run ZB more of then not when I H/H and arenas.

Also SoD is a great elite from the prot line, I'm getting 75% block plus an armor boost on anything that passes thru or caster damage.

pink

WoH is better than ZB now and I just tried Glimmer this morning it isn't that bad.I would say there are only 3 good elites in the protection line being DH,SoD and RC.

JDRyder · Feb 15, 2008, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fleeting

LoD is fine. Nerfs happen, it's still a 1s cast and it still targets the entire party over most other party heals, you just need to adapt. As for Glimmer, not all abilities need to be effective 100% of the time (though the ability could do with a slight buff considering how it compares to HB + Orison).

the 10 rechage and low healing power still renders it next to useless as a elite. i think it was better off with the 2sec cast, for pve it was still useful cause even tho it was a 2sec cast in pve is not as bad. i think by making a 1 sec cast with 10sec rechage they hoped to put it back in some builds for gvg "my guild tryed it in 2 battles and then went back to woh" but the healing power is too low for the rechage for pvp and pve now. if it healed for 80-100 maybe with the rechage now but id just like to see that skill go back to 2sec cast or even better back to before any nerfs, but thats just me :P i can see why it was nerfed but still. dont get me wrong i love to adapt to new builds part of why i made this to start with but its not a lot of new going on over the past year for monk

ender6 · Feb 15, 2008, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

WoH is better than ZB now and I just tried Glimmer this morning it isn't that bad.I would say there are only 3 good elites in the protection line being DH,SoD and RC.

There are 4 good elites in the prot line (some may even argue more), regardless of that fact your whole point was that the prot line doesn't have enough good elites, how many good elites do you count in the other lines?

JR · Feb 15, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

WoH is better than ZB now and I just tried Glimmer this morning it isn't that bad.I would say there are only 3 good elites in the protection line being DH,SoD and RC.

ZB is definately still a decent elite. It may not be directly as powerful or as spammable as WoH, but it also saves having to spec into healing.

RC, ZB, and SoD are strong prot elites. DH is only decent in an environment where you know you are going to be facing a lot of hexes.

Kwan Xi · Feb 15, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

ZB and WoH are both good in their own right and I use them both whenever I see fit. My Hybrid bars are usually the WoH Hybrid with a few modifications. and the GoH and ZB Hybrid and I run them on two monks. The main reason I do this is because I like to diversify my monk skills more. like my WoH Monk uses Signet of Rej instead of RoF. One of the monks runs SB while the other PS the only skills that would be the same would be Aegis, and Dismiss Condition. I'm sure there's no problem with running two monks with the same skills but it's only my preference that I bring different skills on both monks.

Age · Feb 15, 2008, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

ZB is definately still a decent elite. It may not be directly as powerful or as spammable as WoH, but it also saves having to spec into healing.

RC, ZB, and SoD are strong prot elites. DH is only decent in an environment where you know you are going to be facing a lot of hexes.

ZB maybe a decent skill but it is not great as WoH even on an infuser as WoH can cover that just good.Who speccs in just protection alone these day as most templates are hybrids of heal/protect?There is no real heal and protect Monk in todays game.

This thread may expalin it a little further.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10244852

Santa Is Leet · Feb 15, 2008, 11:20 PM // 23:20

As Jr and pyro pretty much said before: ZB DOES work better playing as an arena monk....not as many over heals where u and another monk might target the same guy and waste ur 10 enrgy. Plus you've just buffed the rest of ur prot skills by runnin ZB instead of WoH. ZB heals an unconditional 170 hp at 14 protection, WoH heals for a condtional 216 hp for under 50% health at 14 healing. Really, both skills only gain the full benefit for healing <50% allies. So ur choice, unconditional heal and conditional energy or conditional heal (still powerful) and unconditional energy. Either works great for arenas...but id take WoH for 8v8

EDIT: wait a minute......i'm in the campfire forums...watever

lazuli · Feb 16, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirkoTeran

Perma-SpellBreaker? No thanks.

[skill]spell breaker[/skill]
well, perma spellbreaker is doable with dwarven stability/serpents quickness/blessed aura and a 20% ench weapon, but thats beside the point.
25s recharge would be too good to be true

as for the other skills..

[skill]scribe's insight[/skill]
needs to be a SKILL, not an ENCHANTMENT imo. that change would make it worth using

[skill]unyielding aura[/skill]
if you really need those rezzes to stay up that bad, you can always suicide (and get a FC restore life rez)

[skill]word of healing[/skill]
i still don't get why they made it self targetting..it's way too good now. i suppose a *minor* nerf might not be too bad.

Ensign · Feb 16, 2008, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Just to mention some options I find interesting:

Healer's Covenant needs to lose the maintained enchantment part, ala Healer's Boon. It's completely worthless with it, as the energy degen eats up almost all of your potential savings.

Spell Breaker and Shield of Judgment would be interesting PvP skills if you dropped their durations and recharges significantly; Consider Spell Breaker as a 5d, 12r spell for instance. That sort of change isn't practical though; it'll piss off far more farmers and 'ruin the game for them', which isn't worth any marginal benefit to the skills in a team environment.

Boon Signet needs to heal for significantly more, even if it means losing some of the energy. Making it a legitimate spot heal that returned a few points of energy on occasion might make it a legitimate choice for an elite.

Withdraw Hexes is fine mechanically, the numbers are simply way too high. See Shatterstorm, which is an acceptable but marginal elite, for inspiration.

Melody Cross · Feb 17, 2008, 10:29 PM // 22:29

While I agree with the OPs zeal (if not all his suggestions) I've yet to see Izzy respond to a list thread in any meaningful way. In this light, I find it doubtful that tangible changes will come from a thread that lists skills we wish to see changed, no matter how badly they are in the public mind or from a balance/cost effective analysis.

A counterproposal: Would the GW monk community respond to a poll, if such a thread could be posted here by a mod? We take the top three "untouched" (untouched meaning either skills that have never seen an update or whose updates have been so marginal that they have never promoted active use by the community at large) monk elites players have voted to be changed and submit them on his wiki page, with a link to the poll thread to show a measure of our solidarity. I stipulate untouched skills to prevent backlashes; we don't need it turning into a "bring back LoD" thread or a "Buff HBoon moar!". We have enough of those, I think.

Its true; many--far more than any other core profession--elites in the monk line remain unchanged from the tentative "nerfed" state they have been in since they were released. Elites tend to define builds, and elite variety that promotes different in-game tactics. The backline could use some love, not just one or two upper echelon skills, a couple toys to tinker with, and junk cluttered through the rest of the line.

GGs

EDIT: since I doubt that'll happen:

Life Sheath: reduce uptime to 10sec to prevent pre-clash pre-prot; reduce recycle to 3secs
PnH: more energy, less uptime (duh!) or make it self targeting only and 3 pips
Boon Sig: um...HEAL PLEASE???